Excellent investigative work! And a very informative post! I really need to look more into this!

My bottle of DYC white vingegar says it is naturally brewed. Says under the ingredients White Vingegar (brewed from fermented spirit derived from milk). It says nothing about any acteic acid. So I'm guessing this is one of the good ones? NZ made.

I agree with Karli.

what percentage of "white vinegar" is distilled grains v. acidic acid? I went and checked the label on my bottle (generic Kroger brand) and it DOES say "distilled" There are no ingredients listed. So can I be sure this is made from grains?

"The other issue is that acetic acid is harmful to marine life - but which kind??? The "natural" kind as in all vinegars or the synthetic kind? I can't find that out - I keep asking and asking and not getting responses. Grrrr..."

The natural and synthetic kinds are chemically identical. You may not be getting responses to this question because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Wow, this totally bums me out to read. Thanks for such a thorough look into it!

Exactly!! Thanks for saying that Mary, I was going to say the same thing.

You're very welcome Eleanor! I am a bit of a research & learning junkie so happy to pass on what I know.

Did you see the posts about plastics & silicones & the myth busting there? Well worth a read too! :)

Thankyou Kim! That's very helpful. Do you mind if I share the link on my Facebook page? I've heard a few of my Eco Mummas do the handmade stuff at home with great success! Will have to give it a try now me thinks :)

Indeed it is Mary - I don't know many who eat it on their fish & chips though! ;)

Pretty sure the warnings on that are extensive & its not to be handled or used around the house... so why should a diluted product of the same (or similar) be allowed to be eaten??!!

Acetic Acid is responsible for the sharply sour taste of vinegar in BOTH fruit-derived and petroleum-derived vinegars. It is inflammatory, especially to nerve tissue. Substantial amounts of it have been known to trigger aggressive behavior in individuals otherwise not known for that.
So I choose not to use it internally regardless of source. Knowing the supposed watchdog agencies don't mind a bit if it's petroleum-derived though, is valuable information. Thank you.

Wow. That was a great read! Thank you for sharing all your research! The brand Heinz recently ran an ad campaign based on their white vinegar coming from grain not petrochemicals. That's what we use at my house now. : )

I was starting to get scared...

But the bottle on my shelf says "Distilled White Vinegar" (Heinz). It indicated that it is made from fermented grains, then diluted with water to a uniform level of 5% acidity. That's different than saying it's "5% Acetic Acid".

In terms of what is beng argued her ie natural verses man-made/synthetic, fermented means that it must have come from a natural source that the fermenting bacteria are able to consume in order to produce the alcohol in the spirit that is the base for the vinegar. This is then further converted to vinegar. ie There's a fine line between fermenting fruit to make wine and fermenting fruit to make vinegar. It's really just a case of getting the bacteria mix wrong. The description sounds natural to me. The fac that water is added is not an issue it just means that the vinegar has been diluted so that it is almost the exact same concentration every time you by it. As it's a natural process you can't guarantee the exact outcome each time, so they water it down to the same point.

"Acetic acid is synthetically produced & petrochemically derived alcohol made in a lab watered down for “safe” human consumption"...Jan, we have stronger acid in our bodies. Historic acetic acid production was not 'petrochemical' based, but rather came from the wine that Eco Mom spends about 2 words talking about out of 1000. Acetic acid, like any acid is biologically sound because through dilution, it tends to water. Better than nitrates/phosphates that are being poured down our drains daily.

To say that it is petrochemically based seems spurious. Because oil was abundant (and is), the easiest way to get to CH3-COOH was to subtract a little from ethyl alchohol. This does not mean it is dangerous - acids will dilute themselves when added to water. Neither does it mean its use is unconscionable - we could synthesize any organic compound (acid,alcohols, alkanes/kenes/kynes, ketones, aldehydes) from petrochemicals. That we can put one product in and get so many out just means we're using more and more parts of the buffalo. Petrochemically synthesized is another word, that sounds a lot worse, for conservation-minded. Instead of pumping this product back downhole, or burning it off, we have used it to ... fill in the blank. Since it is a byproduct of an addiction to oil, the terrible way to go would be to flush it back down the toilet without finding a suitable use for it. Anyone who wants to swear off of the whole oil addiction we suffer from had better not use a computer, a car, a furnace, plastic, telephones, or a myriad of other devices/gadgets. Or just use white damned vinegar on the floors not because its amazing (http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/Vinegar/index.htm), but because its simply better than the alternative.

Oh good grief...could you get more paranoid? I really think that chemistry should be a required subject before high school graduation. Just an eensy weensie bit of knowledge might help a bit.

My WALMART brand white vinegar has as the listed ingredient "distilled vinegar." By your definition then, it is okay, right? But wait...on the other side of the bottle it says "distilled with water to 5% acidity." It doesn't say "acetic acid" anywhere on the bottle, but as is pointed out by another poster...acetic acid is simply the name of the compound, it doesn't indicate if it was naturally derived or syntheticly derived.

"Acetic acid [DOES NOT] = made in a lab" any more than "dihydrogen monoxide = made in a lab" For those who are not in on the joke, "dihydrogen monoxide" is H2O...or water. Which yes, can be the by-product of a chemical reaction in a lab...or a chemical reaction in the atmosphere. And guess what? There isn't any difference between the H2O made in a lab and the H2O made in the atmosphere.

"The second (although not widely used as its expensive) way of producing acetic acid is through the process called “acetaldehyde” (sounds like formaldehyde... does that give you confidence this is healthy stuff?!) "

Oh, wow. Just wow. This makes my head hurt.

First of all, "acetaldehyde" is not a process. It is a compound. Note that I did not call it a "chemical," because that scares the chemically illiterate masses. The truth is that acetaldehyde, like many compounds, is naturally occuring (from Wikipedia "Acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit, and is produced by plants as part of their normal metabolism.") and can be produced synthetically.

That "acetaldehyde" and "formaldehyde" have the same suffix is not so important as is implied. They both have that suffix because they both contain the "aldehyde" group RHC=O ("R" is a place filler, where different organic groups can be...and "organic" is not in the sense that is being described in this post, it is in the chemical sense of compounds that are carbon containing or compounds that aren't carbon containing). The difference is that formaldehyde is H2C=O while acetaldhyde is H3CHC=O. The difference between them is much like the difference between carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide...one is a normal biproduct of human respiration while the other is a deadly poison.

Now whether the process to process acetic acid is producing some environmentally unfriendly stuff is an entirely other discussion. But I can tell you from having worked inside of one of the largest speciality chemical companies in the world for 12 years--6 of them in research and 6 in Environmental, Health, and Safety (EH&S)--that the large chemical companies in America are actually amongst the safest and most environmentally responsible of all companies in this country and perhaps the world. It wasn't always that way for sure. But in the mid-late 80's and especially going into the 90's, the chemical companies realized that they needed to clean up--that it was good for business. And they did it in a serious way. The media just doesn't cover that because it doesn't sell newspapers or magazines.

Ironically, I took a job as an EH&S manager at a large newspaper after working at that chemical company, and found it to be a HUGE culture shock. They really weren't as concerned with the issues that I cared so passionately about. I called another of my co-workers who had also taken a job with another company in another industry, and he reported the same thing--huge culture shock. The things we had been doing for EH&S 10 or 15 years prior at the chemical company were hard to push through and get implemented at our new employers. Fortunately for me the environmental impact of the processes at my company weren't so big (it was the employee safety & health issues that kept me awake at night). My former coworker though was working for a battery company, and he was getting slammed on all 3 fronts. Poor guy.

As is pointed out by another respondant...your own original post is laced with sarcasm...thus I felt the tone of my post was very much appropriate. That said...I will try to dial it down a bit.

I checked the references that you gave at the end of your post to find the process for making vinegar that you describe, and none contained it. Do you have specific references for the process of making vinegar that resemble at all what is presented in this blog? This is what I find for the process to make vinegar, which does contain information about commercial scale production: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Vinegar.html

Further, I specifically found information on the FDA website that indicates that food products that are expected to contain vinegar, such as pickles, may not substitute acetic acid, and diluted acetic acid may not be sold as "vinegar" because acetic acid is a component of vinegar, and other components are necessary to truly make it "vinegar." http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074577.htm

The quote you use about the majority of vinegar being made from synthetic alcohol is from the 1960's at best (possibly earlier, it isn't really clearly referenced in the document) and is actually quoting an OPINION from the U.S. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Division, Internal Revenue Service. I'm not sure why they would be expected to have accurate information on this, or why we would consider the situation from so long ago to still be in place.

Sorry about the double post there! The first time I tried to post I got a screen saying that it hadn't posted... Anyway, here is the part that got cut off.

Regarding your 7th reference and its question...according to the FDA document that I previously linked to, manufacturers can not label a product as "vinegar" if it is simply diluted acetic acid. Now that would not apply to you in Australia (and that may be why you are having trouble getting responses from your local vinegar producers), but it does apply here in America, and is the bottom line. Diluted acetic acid is NOT vinegar.

I agree with you that vinegar made with use of synthetic alcohol should not be considered to be "natural"...but I just think at least based on my observations locally explained above, that most white vinegar in the US that is sold in grocery stores is most likely made from grain alcohol.

I think you owe your readers a correction and retraction of much of the false chemistry and misleading statements in your post. Yes, you made the statements in good faith, but now that multiple respondants have tried to explain your errors, and you can see in other comments that you've got people scared about the safety of their vinegar, I think you should make corrections because this post is being shared on Facebook...and many people who read it will not read the comments, just your original post.

This reply is to Eco Mum...just can't submit replies past a certain "level" here.

I don't have any conclusive proof of this...but I suspect that most white vinegar in my area is either made by Heinz and just bottled with a store brand on it, or is at the very least made with the same process.

Why do I suspect this? Well I've been unable to purchase gallon jugs of white vinegar for nearly a month. I've looked in at least 6 different stores, and they are all out of stock of both Heinz and the store brands, and the smaller bottles are also in low supply. Ironically enough, yesterday afternoon--before reading this blog post--I asked a store employee why they are unavailable, and she did not know. I sent an e-mail to Heinz last night, I'll post back if I get a reply.

But I think that BOTH the store brands and the Heinz brand being unavailable points to some problem in production affecting them both.

Many of your sources listed above deal with production of acetic acid, and not necessarily production of vinegar. I think something you may be missing is that the bulk of acetic acid that is produced never makes it into the food stream. Your reference #3 (#5 is the same reference) shows a pie chart for acetic acid uses, most of which are not for the food industry. In fact, I suggest that most of the food industry uses fall into the small "other" wedge. A large amount of acetic acid is used to clean machinery. "Food grade" acetic acid would be required when cleaning food processing machinery--I used to use acetic acid to clean the hard water deposits out of my water heating and cooling systems in the lab much like many people run vinegar through their coffee pots to clean them. Acetic acid is also a necessary part of many chemical synthesis processes...for example, I used to use acetic acid in the production of polymers that were being researched for use in computer chips. We used food grade simply because of its purity.

Yes, I've seen acetic acid listed as an ingredient in food products, so I know it is there. Its never really bothered me...being that I've worked with 100% acetic acid when I was in research. I know the conditions under which it is safe (used in small amounts to affect the pH of a food to make it shelf stable), and when it isn't (i.e. I would never pour 100% acetic acid on my salad).

It is entirely possible and correct labeling for a completely naturally produced bottle of vinegar to contain a label indicating that it is 5% acetic acid. Acetic acid is a component of vinegar. Diluted acetic acid does not make vinegar any more than diluted fructose makes fruit juice. Fructose is a *component* of fruit juice, but it is the other trace components in the fruit juice that change it from being mere sugar-water to being fruit juice. The same is true of vinegar vs. diluted acetic acid.

As for the FDA policy on ethyl alcohol...yes, artificial ethyl alcohol is *allowed* for use in food products. That doesn't mean that it is actually used the majority of the time. Yes, I've seen synthetic ethyl alcohol listed in an ingredients list before--on a bottle of cheap wine that a friend brought over to my house. There wasn't a drop of fruit juice in it, and the ingredients were pretty clear about that...as is required by the FDA policy. One really does need to put that quote about synthetic ethyl alcohol to make vinegar in its proper perspective. It was made in the 1960's or earlier...a time when "scientific" was king, and "natural" was viewed with growing suspicion. TANG was considered healthier than orange juice. Women were told that formula feeding their babies was better than breastfeeding, and even given medication to dry up their milk without even asking them if they wanted to dry up their milk. But there have been drastic changes in perception since that time, so I suspect that OPINION statement does not remotely represent reality any more.

As for needing a degree in chemistry to understand food...generally you don't need one. But when you go talking about chemical matters, you should understand them before speaking authoritatively, or trust those who do have the knowledge since none of us can be experts on everything. You mention that ethyl acetate is used in the production of vinegar, and being upset that it is also in nail polish so "obviously" it is not safe for consumption. But ethyl acetate is a synonym for acetic acid! Just because it has usefulness other than as a food product does not make it dangerous. You refer to acetic acid esters as "not natural," but they are naturally occuring in wines (though an over abundance of esters is considered a fault in a wine) and are what give most fruits and flowers their scents. You keep mentioning alcohol in vinegar. There is no alcohol in vinegar if it is produced properly. The alcohol is converted to acetic acid.

Regarding your 7th reference and its question...according to the FDA document that I previously linked to,

Ummm, I like that you have done research on vinegar. It is a well known "natural' cleaner in the home for windows etc.... The thing I want to know is why do you put it on your chips? Nobody does that, it is not for sprinkling on your chips, but, it is for using to clean your windows! LOL! You should be using MALT vinegar (brown colour) on your chips. Snicker!

A friend of mine said he's never seen white vinegar that wasn't distilled and that the brand he has in his home is. I looked at ours, and both brands we have are distilled as well. I don't know if it's just our part of the US or the US in general, but I'm relieved! Still, I never would have known to look!

Bless your cotton socks - thankyou :)

You're SO lucky - I can't find anything in terms of "grains" here in Oz except on a few of them... most are very ambiguous in terms of content, production method etc... don't like that at all.

And I totally agree re: your stance on Petroleum Jelly - I stopped using Lucas PawPaw because it has petroleum jelly in it. I don't want that stuff in my home, near my kids - they're SO sensitive, Missy 9mths Old gets a terrible hivey / eczema thing if she munches on a bread crust!

I'm happy for those that have chemical resistance developed however I wonder how long that lasts until they see signs of it not being "resistance" but slow reaction?

Our family, me included, aren't in that category - I react instantly to things like MSG (blushing from my chest up my face, heartburn, headaches - straight away, within minutes!) so we just can't take the risk with things like this.

For all the "chemistry lessons" and related quips I've been copping thus far no one has been able to prove to me the source of white vinegar (distilled or otherwise) as a whole is free from chemicals or synthetic "involvement" in anyway.

Until that day, I ain't touching it! ;-)

And thankyou for your kind words - I appreciate it SO much! xo

P.S. Totally agree with you - the zero rating is based on PUBLICISED information... because big corporates who's income depends on what they do don't EVER hide things from the public now do they??? ;-)

Instead of making, or trying to make, your own environmently safe cleaning products try Nature Direct - perfectly safe AND they work!!

Hi Bee,

Thankyou so much! I am so glad you liked the post and that you got the point of it ;-)

You are right in that the point of the whole thing is
a) raise awareness
b) evoke reaction in the form of questioning and
c) help work out ways around the issue with known safe alternatives.

Too many times I've been assured that a chemical version of a natural substance is "the same" and it never is - I don't care what the chemical formula for it is! I don't buy into chemical "propaganda" anymore - unless you can prove it to me, unequivocally that its 100% safe, has been tested & found to be for humans, animals, fish, ocean and land then I don't want to touch it...

Anyway, thankyou so much for your support - I appreciate it, from one Eco Mum to another...! :)

xo

So is a reasonable summary of the issue that in many cases there is no cast iron guarantee that white vinegar (dstilled or otherwise) has been naturally derived as opposed to chemically derived?

Even though some on here say that chemically the substance is the same no matter how it is derived and therefore safe, history has shown in a number of other cases that such assurances are proven in the long term to be ill-founded and it is better to be safe than sorry unless absolutely sure.

In this case, the assurances appear lacking that the white vinegar in question has been naturally derived or created, correct? If so, the post seems to be a reasonable approach to me - employment of the Precautionary Principle in homes is wise and valid no matter how much high school chemistry one has learnt.

I completely agree that petroleum has taken over the earth and its extraction and use are destroying our only home and the health of us, our children, all animals and all plants - but - I do wish you hadn't tried to back up the perfectly legitimate, albeit shocking to some, facts with statements such as "The second (although not widely used as its expensive) way of producing acetic acid is through the processing producing “acetaldehyde” (sounds like formaldehyde... does that give you confidence this is healthy stuff?!)". This is the kind of argument-embellishing statement that makes people laugh at the alternative health crowd and causes others to dismiss the point in one fell swoop before they even hear the message properly - as many of the above scornful comments attest. I have no scorn as I know the point you're getting at - that this whole system is messed up and that we who wish for life and health are fed up with always having to be on the defensive for our rights to a nontoxic life - but I want to make a few points about the chemistry (minus the scorn). For starters acetic acid is a naturally forming compound which can be reproduced in a lab by synthetic means; your original post makes it sound like all acetic acid is poisonous and dangerous, when actually it occurs naturally in safe, edible concentrations in brewed vinegar as well as other ferments such as natural, healthy, safe water kefir and kombucha. Secondly, just because one word sounds like another does not mean it means the same thing or even is related. There's a whole group of compounds, which can occur naturally, in chemistry that end with "aldehyde". "Coconut sounds kind of like cocaine, so we'd better avoid eating coconut" is about as pertinent a statement for your cause as the one about acetaldehyde. Please do double check your facts, for your own sake as well as the people who come to your blog looking for the truth (forget about the troublemakers who don't care about your overall cause; they're not worth losing sleep over!) Your can do just fine justifying its outrage about the toxicity of the "food" industry without needing to embellish your agruments. :) Thank you for speaking out on the atrocities of industry!

At the height of my chemical sensitivity there was a vinegar I reacted to and it was a store brand that did not say distilled. I, personally, have never felt ill using one that says 'distilled' on the label.

You got me thinking about Fels-Naptha soap (http://www.felsnaptha.com/) with this "Oh, and Naphtha? That’s a very broad term covering the lightest and most volatile of the liquid hydrocarbons found in... petroleum. "

ewww. Now I've gotta go do some research and see if I can find out what Fels-Naptha is made from!

Thanks for taking the time not only to research this but also to share it with the rest of us :)

Hi Phoenix,

Yes, I agree - in some ways, you're right and perhaps moderation of my tone and style would be "appropriate"...

However I don't really do "appropriate" by nature. Its not who I am and if I had done it that way, hardly anyone would have read this.

This is not the first post to be written on the subject but its the first one I've seen with so much controversy around it.

That is not to say I relish the put downs, degrading comments, ridicule and sarcasm but I am strong enough to handle it and keep moving forward.

So, yes, in hindsight a "toned down" version may have been less inflammatory but it would not have created the same outcome - people may ridicule me for this post, that is ok. Other people will start to question their products more now as a result - that to me is a great outcome and one I am happy to have helped created... even if I am copping a flogging for it left, right and centre.

All that aside, I love a good debate and often engage in them myself online however I never stoop to name calling, ridicule, abuse, insults, degrading put downs etc on a personal level, attacking anyone personally. There's no need - when you have a fair, provable point you don't need to engage in that kind of behaviour. When you're a competant communicator, you don't need to engage in that kind of behaviour.

I find that when people start the slanging match they either have a flimsy point that can't stand on its own two feet or they can't communicate clearly enough to get their point across. Either way, that's nothing to do with me.

So whilst I don't reslish the hostility, the fact that it is present at all is more of reflection on the person being hostile than it is on me. I have never been hostile in response - there's no need, its not about me. I feel sorry for the people hurling the abuses and put downs. They can't communicate any other way and that is very unfortunate. I can communicate in other ways and so I do :)

I've done the research and as yet no one can prove to me and everyone else on here that what I am saying is totally wrong. Until that time, the hostility will rage away because people can't communicate their points effectively... and also perhaps because there isn't a point that can be proved conclusively.

From this point, I will watch with amusement sipping on a glass of organic wine as the truth comes out...

Oddly enough, Heinz apparently (though I have not seen it myself) spent a bit of a fortune telling everyone that their vinegar is safe & petro-chemical free. If EVERYONE's vinegar is the same (safe and petro-chemical free), why are they spending money to tell everyone what everyone ELSE is already doing??? No company in their right mind would do that, no Director would approve the expense of it because there's no money in it.

High school chemistry quips aside - the issue smells and my "inflammatory" post has made people sit up and take notice. My work here is done :)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I won't shy away from who I am or the fact that this even had to be done in the first place - the "system" is ambiguous and failing us - else why would these posts even need to be written?

Consumers deserve to know for sure, one way or the other... but no one can tell me for sure one way or the other.

Why is that?

Thankyou for your points of view though - I don't feel attacked, in essence and hindsight, you are quite correct. However, what's done is done and I stand by what I've written and hope that more people read it and question the products in their lives as a result! I'll cop the ridicule for that outcome :)

I am very excited by this article! I swear by my microfibre ENJO and water for cleaning but so many people argue with me that vinegar is better and cheaper. Tests have recently shown how in-effective vinegar is too, which can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRwRmjBVQq0 - please do yourself a favour and check it out. I also run a forum of chemical free cleaning hints & tips where everyone shares their secrets to a clean home - please check it out and feel free to share! Together we can make a difference and show these companies we won't stand by and let them destroy our health, the environment and our children's future.

Now there's something else to investigate....microfiber. Microfiber us made up of polyester and polyamide. Guess where polyester comes from? Petroleum. Polyamide in textiles is synthetic unless it's true silk or wool. Just sayin'

MMMM well I have done my best to read the posts and to digest the information contained therein. Firslty isn't it great that we are able to discuss these matters openly and without regulations or a threat of being made silent. Secondly, I applaud all of you for taking the time to comment on matters pertaining to what is contained in products we buy and use. Thirdly I congratulate "eco mum" for having the courage to raise these questions, thus fostering such an interesting debate on these important issues. I do believe that some of the "ole" ideas which our grandparents used in the home, in their food, is worth looking at. Think about this, much of what they had was home made, food they ate, was home grown, water they drank was often tank water or boiled creek water. If they were hurt they resorted to using what was in nature to help in the healing process. I think " eco mum" is trying to remind us to be a little more cautious with what we are being told to use, by so called experts. We are quite capable to make an informed decision about how we live, what we eat and what our families eat. Afterall that I believe is what "eco mum" is all about...So thankyou for all the comments, debates and information herein, I feel a little more aware than I was some hours ago, lol lol lol Hang in there "eco mum" xx

"The point remains unproven - labelling states that one bottle is acetic acid & another is distilled white spirit & another is fermented grain with distilled spirit."

That because, with the way you worded it, they are all the same thing. Those are different ways of saying the same thing.

My word, some people have small minds and obviously nothing better to do than criticise some one trying to make the world a better place for us all to live in.
Hang in there eco mum and ignore all the so called critics who to my mind still haven't prooved you wrong but in there tiny minds think they are smarter than everyone else.
Its people like you who question the "establishment" and then question their answers who will make the world a better place for the silent majority (me included) who sit back and do very little to protect society from these money grabbing multi nationals whose only god is the mighty dollar.
I doff my hat to you dear lady for having the "guts" to put your findings out ther for everyone read,and to those who poo who your credentials the best university for learning is the university of life.
In conclusion I say to you, "carry on with your crusade and stuff the negative people who criticise you as they will not change the world but you just might make it a better place for us ALL to live in, and I am sure they will take what ever improvements you might make, so BRAVO dear girl and carry on the good work.

One of the points of being environmentally friendly with cleaning products is to use products that cost less to the environment in regards to their production and packaging. And another thing which most mums want to do is to save money (while being environmentally friendly). I think both of these points are relevant for using things like vinegar and bicarb soda for cleaning - we already have them in our homes so are are not paying the environmental cost of having extra factories and manufacturing processes and extra packaging and transport costs. Financially we are better off as we are not paying for fancy packaging of cleaning products (aka water plus a bit of disinfectant or whatever).
A third benefit of using substances like vinegar and bicarb is that we know they are relatively safe compared to some other cleaning products on the market. However due care needs to be taken. Everything on the planet is a "chemical" compound (unless it is an actual element), so I do get annoyed at people who promote products as having "no nasty chemicals" etc in their advertising. And just because something is a petrochemical doesn't necessarily make it evil!

I'm not sure I object to using synthetic acetic acid for my cleaning. I don't know that I will want to pay the extra for "food grade" vinegar for cleaning purposes. However thank you for bringing to our attention that there are different ways of making vinegar. I guess this is why the more expensive vinegars taste better!

I will also take into consideration the rare elements that are used in the production process. You are right, there should be more information available about this and many other things on this planet. Who of us would like to go without our mobile phones and yet there are rare elements used in making those too - perhaps we should all try and hang onto our phones for a bit longer and resist the advertisers telling us we need the latest and greatest phone gizmos as every time we throw out an old phone and get a new one that is another precious resource used up from the limited supply on Earth.

Thanks Louisa for doing research on behalf of everyone who takes an interest in the health of our planet.
~Suzy.

Hi Phoenix,

Ok, I'll be honest - I am very tired of this post, of comments and I just want to delete the whole thing.

Because that would be cowardice I won't however if you want to send through whatever editing / changes / updates you feel are most appropriate given your vastly superior knowledge to theecomum@gmail.com I will make the changes you request.

I am a full time mum, full time student (studying, funnily enough, chemistry via Bachelor of Naturopathy) and have 2 businesses to run. I don't have time anymore to devote to the back and forth, back and forth on a word for word change.

Please - send me what you most want to see and I'll update accordingly.

This whole process is taking my time away from my family & I won't allow it to continue anymore.

Thankyou for your feedback - feel free to forward your suggestions to me anytime as how you feel this should be written.

There is so much wrong with your interpretation of this information that I don't even know where to start and couldn't even be bothered responding to every single point, so I'm just going to say one thing:

Just because something is a "chemical" or synthetically derived does not make it inherently "bad" (where would we be without many of the lifesaving medications that are created in a lab?), in the same way that natural things are not always "good" - think about all the poisonous plants that exist. I get that this is not the main point of your post, but it's clear from your writing that this is a belief of yours.

I totally get that you're trying to live an environmentally friendly life and I applaud that, and I'm really disappointed that those companies haven't gotten back to you, but if you had a basic understanding of chemistry you'd realise all the mistakes you've made in your reasoning.

Thank you for all your time on researching this. It is people like you that make people like me start looking into things and questioning big companies. Your giving your thoughts and what you have found out on your own site. THANK YOU It is up to anyone interested in improving their quality of living to do further research and decide for themselves what they want in their homes. You are just trying to open peoples eyes as to what could be going on. Pretty much the same as most magazines, papers etc. If someone has no issues with living in a chemically, plastic infused home and eating GMO foods etc., I wonder why they are frequenting your site? I personally feel that due too our decline of "natural" living and producing "real" food, it has caused serious issues with our earth, Mother Nature and created numerous health issues, cancers etc. that was not in the past. I do not want my children, grand-children etc. suffer even more. This is my personal opinion and not everyone may agree. Which is fine, but, they should respect others opinions. Keep up the good work of getting people to THINK.

Just wondering about the anti-mining stance that really ruins the article for me. Is your computer made of bananas? Does your Internet run by carrier pigeon? Because mining has such a gross impact on you life, you could not possibly sustain the life you live (yes, even an Eco life) without mining. It's a dirty job, but you need us miners

Thank you for bringing attention to the difference between chemically created vinegar and naturally brewed stuff. I never fully realized the importance behind the differences.